Aus Deutschland, R4 Turbo

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r4-rules
Berichten: 8
Lid geworden op: di nov 01, 2005 9:04 pm

Aus Deutschland, R4 Turbo

Bericht: # 65963Bericht r4-rules »

Gibts in Holland jemand der Deutsch kann??? Ich habe gesehn, dass es hier einen R4 mit Gt Turbo Motor gibt!! Echt krass, ich habe einen Ts Motor mit 64 ps in meinem R4. Was hast du alles machen müssen, damit der Motor passte
Manuel
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Goof
Berichten: 1782
Lid geworden op: wo jan 09, 2002 2:00 am
Locatie: N 51 15.32, E 5 33.206

Bericht: # 65981Bericht Goof »

Well, hope your English is better than my German....
To fit a more powerfull engine into the r4, there are several options. One of them is a GTT engine, but that is not quite the most ideal choice in my opinion. I chose for an Alpine Turbo engine, which requires less adaptations to the vehicle. If you're looking for real power, a 1.8 16v from a r19 or clio will fit to the original gearbox too.... :D
If you chose for a GTT engine (which are easy to get) you'll have to adapt the body behind the dashboard, because the GTT engine has its pulleys on the other side. The engine mounts have to be lifted up about 2 cm and the oil filter has to move elsewhere. The engine requires a bigger radiator ans look out for the steeringcolumn. You'll have to fit an electric fuelpump , fuelpressure regulator and a fueldrain back to the tank. Then there's an issue with the electrics, but I don't know the exact details of that.
An Alpine Turbo engine is easier to fit, but will require also lots of adaptations, only not to the bodywork. You can chose the original AT setup or chose for a GTT carb, fuelpump, turbo and fuelpressure regulator. In that case you could mount an intercooler and set the boostpressure higher.
The F-block engine's like the 1.8 or 2.0 16v are possible, because we've seen it before, but I don't have any clue to what problems you would encounter. Same counts for the K-block and J-block engine's.
Most chocking combination would be I guess a 2.0 16v engine with a turbo, combined with the gearbox of a r21 turbo. Power up to 300 HP and beyond is possible, but it's just what you're looking for :wink:
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R4: last but not leased
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Ron
Berichten: 1721
Lid geworden op: ma dec 17, 2001 2:00 am
Locatie: Maassluis

Bericht: # 65995Bericht Ron »

Wise men say : "there's no need to put more than 200 bhp on a front wheel driven car", especially the lighter ones, but the question is : should you care about the wise men? Haha.
I own one of the two known R4 GTT's in this country.
Hint : ditch your TS en buy my GTT. Saves you a lot of time on a conversion! If it wasn't for my financial position, I'd never sell this yellow monster. Make me an offer I can't refuse.

Electrics (ignition) : the GTT is originally fitted with electronical ignition, but mine's working fine with a distributor with breakerpoints!
r4-rules
Berichten: 8
Lid geworden op: di nov 01, 2005 9:04 pm

Bericht: # 66000Bericht r4-rules »

Oh dear i think 1,4 l is enough to a R4!!
I think the alpine turbo is not as good as the gt Turbo!! The gtT engine has more power!!
But I think the alpine engine with 93 Ps is the best decition you can make!! Do you know anybody, who sells such an engine??
@Ron: I saw the pictures of your R4 yesterday. The colour is nearly the same than mine!! But i think in germany the Tüv would not give you the
permittion to drive on the road!! Doesn´t exist something similar in the netherlands??
Your breaks at the back of your car are really bad!!
I would pay 2000 Euros to you, not more, because i won´t be allowed to drive with this car on German roads!!
Tell me a name of someone, who has a alpine engine with 93 Hp in his R4
Manuel
Ron
Berichten: 1721
Lid geworden op: ma dec 17, 2001 2:00 am
Locatie: Maassluis

Bericht: # 66004Bericht Ron »

Howdy,

My brakes ain't bad, but you would suspect that drumbrakes should not suffice. Well, most of the braking is always done with the wheels on the front, therefore the capacity of drumbrakes on the rear will do.
Imagine a stop from 120 kph to 0 kph with a standerd R4, and a stop
from 120 kph to 0 kph with a R4 GTT : there is no difference!

Blahblah, sure, with 200 kph it will be a different story, but with that speed you are more concerned with steering and keeping the car on the road instead of braking. Those speeds are scary in a R4!
Advice : better use them for sprints instead of speed. Sprints are fun!

2000 euro's ... I'll keep that in mind.

Sure we have a technical test every year for our cars and there's the import legislation.
But since the amount of cylinders has not changed (i.e. 4), and that there are no traffic-safety threads on the car, it will pass the test.
One could have an argument on the last statement, but technically and practically, it will pass in The Netherlands.
r4-rules
Berichten: 8
Lid geworden op: di nov 01, 2005 9:04 pm

Bericht: # 66005Bericht r4-rules »

Can you give me some technical dates of you car, how many Hp for example or what you did to achieve this result. Where where difficulties and problems. Does the engine fit perfect?? I don´t think, because in an R5 the engine is in another position, not straight but cross!!
Do you think about 2000 Euros??
Manuel
barrybas
Berichten: 97
Lid geworden op: wo jan 05, 2005 2:39 pm

Bericht: # 66015Bericht barrybas »

if you have an engion, older than 1984 then it fits perfectly.
My R4 850 cc is fitted with a 1400 cc engion of a R5 and i hoop to built a turbo on it in my next holiday.
My transmission is from a R4 GTL.

greetz barry
renault 12, bigger not better
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Goof
Berichten: 1782
Lid geworden op: wo jan 09, 2002 2:00 am
Locatie: N 51 15.32, E 5 33.206

Bericht: # 66016Bericht Goof »

r4-rules schreef:Oh dear i think 1,4 l is enough to a R4!!
I think the alpine turbo is not as good as the gt Turbo!! The gtT engine has more power!!
But I think the alpine engine with 93 Ps is the best decition you can make!!

Tell me a name of someone, who has a alpine engine with 93 Hp in his R4
Well, in fact the AT engine is better than the GTT engine. it is just better constructed, but the setup with the carb in front of the turbocharger is not quite happy. Therefore I'm using on my project an AT engine with GTT carb, turbo and so on. In fact the AT engine will give you more power with this setup than the GTT, because the AT had a crossflow cilinderhead. The AT engine is also more reliable than the GTT.
A normal alpine engine is another option and requires almost the same amount of changes to the car as a normal 1400 engine.
There are lots of guys around with a normal Alpine engine in their r4.
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R4: last but not leased
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Ron
Berichten: 1721
Lid geworden op: ma dec 17, 2001 2:00 am
Locatie: Maassluis

Bericht: # 66018Bericht Ron »

Seems like I have the wrong car then... :) Jealous you :P
Normal use to a GTT engine will have no effect on reliability.
It should be better tunable and spareparts are abundant at relatively low cost.

Btw, I will not sell for 2000 at this moment, thank you, but I'll mail details of this car, and who knows... in the future...
r4-rules
Berichten: 8
Lid geworden op: di nov 01, 2005 9:04 pm

Bericht: # 66093Bericht r4-rules »

@Goof
a friend of mine said, that the alpine turbo with the crossflew cylinderhead wasn´t as good as the gt turbo, because the crossflew cylinderhead and the turbo doesn´t work perfect and because the "Vergaser" I don´t know in Englisch, there fuel gets together with the air, is in front of the turbo, which means air with fuel is pushed through the turbo charger, what is not perfect. The gt turbo engine makes it better. What were you trying the make a mix between the alpine turbo and the gt turbo engine or what???
Manuel
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cees en jantine
Berichten: 814
Lid geworden op: wo mar 05, 2003 2:00 am
Locatie: papendrecht

Bericht: # 66098Bericht cees en jantine »

r4-rules schreef:@Goof
a friend of mine said, that the alpine turbo with the crossflew cylinderhead wasn´t as good as the gt turbo, because the crossflew cylinderhead and the turbo doesn´t work perfect and because the "Vergaser" I don´t know in Englisch, there fuel gets together with the air, is in front of the turbo, which means air with fuel is pushed through the turbo charger, what is not perfect. The gt turbo engine makes it better. What were you trying the make a mix between the alpine turbo and the gt turbo engine or what???
yes goof is making a mix. the crossflow cilinderhead is much better then the GTT one, this is the advantage. when you put the rest of the GTT parts on it. carberator(vergaser) etc. you will get more standard horsepower then the GTT.

i still have the original AT setup(vergaser vorne den turbo), works fine but the turbolag(spooling up of the turbo) is much bigger i think then GTT. and it needs time to get used to. because the moment between less power and every power(turbo kicks in) is really short.

so i think goof's option gets the best result, standard, but the GTT standard setup is the most easy to upgrade i think.

i will make a front brake upgrade to AT brakes, rear i keep the drums

what about the r4 alpine of Kay Novak? he is german.. and driving around
De fiets is ook heel gezond...heb een Fiat 850 gekocht
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Goof
Berichten: 1782
Lid geworden op: wo jan 09, 2002 2:00 am
Locatie: N 51 15.32, E 5 33.206

Bericht: # 66099Bericht Goof »

@ Cees,

The large turbogap from the AT is not due to the carburettor-setup, but because of the type of turbocharger. This is a T3 turbo, which is fine for high powers or bigger engine's, but spins up quite slow. The T2 charger from a GTT is a bit smaller and is better suited for a 1.4 engine, cause it just spins up earlier and gives you boostpressure faster.
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R4: last but not leased
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r4-rules
Berichten: 8
Lid geworden op: di nov 01, 2005 9:04 pm

Bericht: # 66113Bericht r4-rules »

There are many crazy people in the Netherland, aren´t there? What they´re doing with an R4 is nearly unbelievable!! Here in Germany the best thing you can do, is to put an alpine engine without booster in you r4 and i think i will do that in an few years.
My next thing will be to put the 5 Gear Gearbox in my R4 from a R5 Ts. Then i will move to the Tüv and hope he will have a yeas to my mutations of the car :D
But in the future i will have an alpine engine and very good breaks.
But tell me one thing, what can i do to make my car very hard, that it will fit perfectly to the street. Now it is an desaster. I only have a STABILISATOR in the back of the car ftrom the r5 ts and in front the original one. And i have bisteindämpfer in the front of the car!!
What can i do???
Manuel
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Goof
Berichten: 1782
Lid geworden op: wo jan 09, 2002 2:00 am
Locatie: N 51 15.32, E 5 33.206

Bericht: # 66121Bericht Goof »

Well, to stiffen up the car, you can do several things. The stabiliser on the back is a good thing, but take one from an alpine (turbo) and also put one on the front of your car. It fits right away. You can use the torsion springs from an alpine for your backaxle. It's quite hard to get the old ones out, but will give you a much harder spring. For the front suspensions you could consider using shockabsorbers with aditional coilsprings or "shorten" your springs in the way Folkert4AT did. I only don't have pictures of that. For the shockabsorbers, bilstein is a good choice, but Koni would even be better. The red koni's are adjustable. One problem: the res koni's are out of production, so you would have to find some from the internet. You can use the shocks from an Alpine for the front. For the back it's really hard to find some, because you can't use the alpine shocks and koni's specially for the r4 are very hard to find.
Then there's an issue with the rubber bushes from the front suspension. I had these machined in Nylon and replaced.
If you do all of this, the car will handle like a Porsche.
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R4: last but not leased
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r4-rules
Berichten: 8
Lid geworden op: di nov 01, 2005 9:04 pm

Bericht: # 66133Bericht r4-rules »

What do you think about stabilisators of an R4 f6, i think they are as good as the one´s from an alpine turbo, or???
And the torsion springs of an F6?? I think they will fit perfect at front and back!! they are very hard!!
I think they car should be put down(tieferlegen), too, or??
Then you will have a racing machine´!! I will have one :D
What about wider tires, i have ts with tire dimension 145!! I think alpine tires a´n 175/185 will also help to make the car keep more silent on the road!!
Manuel
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